I'm wondering just how much of a kncok in quality I'll be taking by not being able to use DX11. I actually have a DX11 card, and a pretty decent rig (I can max out the settings on most games) but unfortunately I'm still on Windows XP. So no DX11. Do you think this game will still look good with DX9 on high settings? Just how big a difference does DX11 make?

As far as I'm concerned, the difference in actual games is very subtle when you compare it side by side. Mainly because most games are produced with consoles in mind, which lack the features of new graphics cards (DX11).

The DX11 enhancements are often bolted on like som afterthought (i.e. Crysis 2), which actually don't do much if the game isn't made from scratch with DX11 in mind.

@guanophobic said:

As far as I'm concerned, the difference in actual games is very subtle when you compare it side by side. Mainly because most games are produced with consoles in mind, which lack the features of new graphics cards (DX11).

The DX11 enhancements are often bolted on like som afterthought (i.e. Crysis 2), which actually don't do much if the game isn't made from scratch with DX11 in mind.

Ok, thanks for the reply. I'm hoping the difference will be minor. I remember with Dragon Age 2 I was only able to set the graphics quality to medium because of this DX issue, and that game looked pretty crappy.

If it looks at least as good as the consoles I'll be happy, because what I've seen so far in the reviews looks pretty damn good.

I know I'm going to have to swap operating systems soon. Just such a mission.

It's hard to say having not had any time with the game on any format. Having said that though, this is a Unreal 3 game we're talking about, and unless there have been some major tweaks to it by Rocksteady, I very much doubt you'll be missing out on anything that will show a gulf in performance. I imagine they're making good use of the Tessellation ability on DX11, and I think this will be very apparent when sweeping around the cityscape at high speed.

@Contro said:

It's hard to say having not had any time with the game on any format. Having said that though, this is a Unreal 3 game we're talking about, and unless there have been some major tweaks to it by Rocksteady, I very much doubt you'll be missing out on anything that will show a gulf in performance. I imagine they're making good use of the Tessellation ability on DX11, and I think this will be very apparent when sweeping around the cityscape at high speed.

Yeah, thanks, guess we'll have to wait and see.

As long as a game isn't made for DirectX 11 in mind from the ground up, I doubt we'll be seeing any substantial improvements. So far it seems to be going the way of DX10.

As long as consoles don't adopt DX11 API, which is to say, as long as the new consoles aren't out, DX11 implementation will always be a half-baked process for multiplatform games on PC, excluding a few projects like Metro2033 where the developer takes more time to polish the PC version and set it apart with the DX11 features you've come to expect like Adaptive tessellation and compute shaders.

It's unfortunate because if a game was built from scratch based on DX11 spec, based on a developers artistic and technical talents, said game could look really, really close to CGI. And people forget that the more streamlined the visual process is, the more memory is available for everything else in the game such as world size, AI, gameplay mechanics, physics, NPCs, number of assets loaded in memory, and so on.

These days it takes incredible amounts of resources and cutbacks to create games such as the new Batman, which Jeff calls a semi-open world. Because with these consoles, you can't afford much else, what with the 135MB of visual memory (PS3) afforded to developers. Deserted open world cities are a running theme in games not because that sounds cool, but because we can't afford anything spectacular yet. People want to dismiss the arrival of new consoles, and ultimately, DX11 (or 12 by then), but trust me, developers are literally begging for more memory and horsepower, and want to break out of the status quo enforced by an archaically built console with absurdly low amounts of memory bottlenecking the entire multiplatform industry.

@warxsnake said:

As long as consoles don't adopt DX11 API, which is to say, as long as the new consoles aren't out, DX11 implementation will always be a half-baked process for multiplatform games on PC, excluding a few projects like Metro2033 where the developer takes more time to polish the PC version and set it apart with the DX11 features you've come to expect like Adaptive tessellation and compute shaders.

It's unfortunate because if a game was built from scratch based on DX11 spec, based on a developers artistic and technical talents, said game could look really, really close to CGI. And people forget that the more streamlined the visual process is, the more memory is available for everything else in the game such as world size, AI, gameplay mechanics, physics, NPCs, number of assets loaded in memory, and so on.

These days it takes incredible amounts of resources and cutbacks to create games such as the new Batman, which Jeff calls a semi-open world. Because with these consoles, you can't afford much else, what with the 135MB of visual memory (PS3) afforded to developers. Deserted open world cities are a running theme in games not because that sounds cool, but because we can't afford anything spectacular yet. People want to dismiss the arrival of new consoles, and ultimately, DX11 (or 12 by then), but trust me, developers are literally begging for more memory and horsepower, and want to break out of the status quo enforced by an archaically built console with absurdly low amounts of memory bottlenecking the entire multiplatform industry.

Yep, certainly is there was a concerted mass effort from developers to start implementing DX11 in a big way I'd make certain my computer is ready for it. I wouldn't want to stand in the way of progress.

But like you say, that's not happening yet. I mean, Skyrim isn't even using it at all. Though it does still look fantastic from what I've seen.

I did not notice that Battlefield 3 will not be supporting DX9, and that's a bit of a first I think. So it does slowly seem to be going that way.

@spoonfreak said:

@warxsnake said:

As long as consoles don't adopt DX11 API, which is to say, as long as the new consoles aren't out, DX11 implementation will always be a half-baked process for multiplatform games on PC, excluding a few projects like Metro2033 where the developer takes more time to polish the PC version and set it apart with the DX11 features you've come to expect like Adaptive tessellation and compute shaders.

It's unfortunate because if a game was built from scratch based on DX11 spec, based on a developers artistic and technical talents, said game could look really, really close to CGI. And people forget that the more streamlined the visual process is, the more memory is available for everything else in the game such as world size, AI, gameplay mechanics, physics, NPCs, number of assets loaded in memory, and so on.

These days it takes incredible amounts of resources and cutbacks to create games such as the new Batman, which Jeff calls a semi-open world. Because with these consoles, you can't afford much else, what with the 135MB of visual memory (PS3) afforded to developers. Deserted open world cities are a running theme in games not because that sounds cool, but because we can't afford anything spectacular yet. People want to dismiss the arrival of new consoles, and ultimately, DX11 (or 12 by then), but trust me, developers are literally begging for more memory and horsepower, and want to break out of the status quo enforced by an archaically built console with absurdly low amounts of memory bottlenecking the entire multiplatform industry.

Yep, certainly is there was a concerted mass effort from developers to start implementing DX11 in a big way I'd make certain my computer is ready for it. I wouldn't want to stand in the way of progress.

But like you say, that's not happening yet. I mean, Skyrim isn't even using it at all. Though it does still look fantastic from what I've seen.

I did not notice that Battlefield 3 will not be supporting DX9, and that's a bit of a first I think. So it does slowly seem to be going that way.

Console gaming isn't going to be pushing it with any degree of certainty until next year with WiiU, and only because it's been announced. And when you have games like The Witcher 2 developed for DX9, looking as good as it does, and using a ton of cheap middle-ware optimised for DX9, I think DX11's introduction will be stemmed. Developers must be looking at that game and thinking - why should we bother with this unless it's absolutely necessary for what we're trying to create, and when we could keep the costs down and be inventive instead - I think that trail of thought is logical in this climate.

@warxsnake: If I had it my way they wouldn't be using Unreal 3 for starters, there's no way you can achieve that look you're talking about with Unreal as it stands now. I would have liked to have seen DX11 core also, but what would be the point unless it was using a high quality proprietary engine like CryEngine 3.

It's cheap, Rocksteady took the cheap route, and I suppose it's understandable, but with the next game I think fans will demand more. I hope they start working on a new engine soon.

@Contro said:

Console gaming isn't going to be pushing it with any degree of certainty until next year with WiiU, and only because it's been announced. And when you have games like The Witcher 2 developed for DX9, looking as good as it does, and using a ton of cheap middle-ware optimised for DX9, I think DX11's introduction will be stemmed. Developers must be looking at that game and thinking - why should we bother with this unless it's absolutely necessary for what we're trying to create, and when we could keep the costs down and be inventive instead - I think that trail of thought is logical in this climate.

@warxsnake: If I had it my way they wouldn't be using Unreal 3 for starters, there's no way you can achieve that look you're talking about with Unreal as it stands now. I would have liked to have seen DX11 core also, but what would be the point unless it was using a high quality proprietary engine like CryEngine 3.

It's cheap, Rocksteady took the cheap route, and I suppose it's understandable, but with the next game I think fans will demand more. I hope they start working on a new engine soon.

Yeah, it's hard to complain with visuals like the Witcher 2's. It makes you wander just how much further they can go. I don't think any big changes are coming any time soon console-wise either. There'd be rumblings and announcements first and then it would probably be a good year or two before anything actually arrived. The PC obviously won't go it alone either.

@spoonfreak said:

@Contro said:

Console gaming isn't going to be pushing it with any degree of certainty until next year with WiiU, and only because it's been announced. And when you have games like The Witcher 2 developed for DX9, looking as good as it does, and using a ton of cheap middle-ware optimised for DX9, I think DX11's introduction will be stemmed. Developers must be looking at that game and thinking - why should we bother with this unless it's absolutely necessary for what we're trying to create, and when we could keep the costs down and be inventive instead - I think that trail of thought is logical in this climate.

@warxsnake: If I had it my way they wouldn't be using Unreal 3 for starters, there's no way you can achieve that look you're talking about with Unreal as it stands now. I would have liked to have seen DX11 core also, but what would be the point unless it was using a high quality proprietary engine like CryEngine 3.

It's cheap, Rocksteady took the cheap route, and I suppose it's understandable, but with the next game I think fans will demand more. I hope they start working on a new engine soon.

Yeah, it's hard to complain with visuals like the Witcher 2's. It makes you wander just how much further they can go. I don't think any big changes are coming any time soon console-wise either. There'd be rumblings and announcements first and then it would probably be a good year or two before anything actually arrived. The PC obviously won't go it alone either.

This is an interesting video...

It's going to look even better now, whether there's a gulf in quality remains to be seen. They may have gone overboard in creating DX11 exclusive effects, because it would hold them in good stead going into the next game on new platforms.